I just got back from my monthly critique group and am ready to wrap up our discussion of those pesky Manly Guy characters. For those of you just dropping in, we’ve been talking about how to write from a male point of view, and have critiqued some snippets of novels by a number of women writers over the last few days.
Yesterday, RelevantGirl posted this spoof segment, which shows exactly how NOT to write a Manly Guy (or a Womanly Girl):
Lawrence tipped his teacup to his lips. Too hot. He dabbed the corners of his mouth while his mind wandered to the buttercup fields of his youth where he and Mother would gallivant the meadows searching for just the right spot for a picnic. Oh, how he ached for those picnics again–the tiny crustless sandwiches, the petit-fours, the clanking of the china cup to its flowered saucer. He’d give his best suit to sit next to Mother again.
Caroline smoothed her dress and burped.
Lawrence gasped. “You can’t be serious, Caroline. That’s hardly ladylike behavior. I thought better of you, actually.”
The woman who’d soon be his bride slurped her tea, spat it back into the cup and grimaced. “You got any chew?”
Lawrence drew in a quick breath, then calmed himself. He picked at a hangnail. “Darling, whatever do you mean?”
“Chew, chaw, Copenhagen. Anything. I’m dying here.”
Lawrence looked around, his eyes wet with disappointment. “Would a pipe do?”
She smiled. She ransacked the tiny cottage, thrashing about. “Now! I need it now!”
Lawrence slunked off to the corner and shook.
“There it is.” She flicked the lighter on and off, on and off, her face like a macabre black and white movie. “Now I can blow this place up!” She ran over to Lawrence and kicked him square in the gut. “And if you’re smart, you’ll get out of here or you’ll be toast.”
The last thing Lawrence saw was his precious cottage engulfed in growling flames, his fiance’s cackle booming in his ears. Lawrence cried. Then cried some more.
RelevantGirl is of course my friend, Mary DeMuth, an accomplished novelist who knows better than to make a grown man cry. And cry some more. I think Mary hit pretty much all the wrong notes here, both for Lawrence and Caroline. Attagirl, Mary!
Moving on then, we have a few other questions to tackle:
Diane asked:
How does a boy think differently from a man, or is there a difference? I mean, boys can be pretty sensitive right? At what age does boyish bravado change over to manly ego? Or are they the same thing?
Randy sez: Boys start thinking like men pretty quickly. I would guess by age 4 or 5, they are already pretty well lined up with men on a lot of issues. Let me say right now that I have no idea whether there is a genetic basis to “Manly Guy” thinking or whether it’s just cultural. I would guess it’s a bit of both. But it kicks in pretty early, if my own memories are any guide.
Donna asked:
I agree, this has been very interesting and thought provoking. But I also am curious about the more insecure and softer sides of the manly man, especially in their actual thoughts. Surely they do at times think that way, so how can we portray that without making them seem wussy or worse?
Randy sez: You show them faking being strong and tough, but show flashes of that softer side. For any number of examples of this, watch any Bruce Willis movie. The old Die Hard movies are great examples. Bruce is as tough as they come in those movies, but you also see flashes of inner pain. Just a little bit, but it’s enough to know that he’s got real emotions. Manly Guy emotions.
Karla wrote:
I have a question, or maybe it’s an observation. But isn’t it true that in romance novels the guys think more like women and that’s why (some) women like reading them so much and wishing her man was that way? (I don’t read romance novels very often and if I do they are Christian ones and the Christian romeo is usually a stellar fellow who of course would never think about sex and blowing things up. Food is OK. Football, too.)
I have a number of friends who write romance novels, and many of them secretly worry that their male characters are “transvestites” — characters with male bodies who actually think like women. After I gave my infamous talk a few years ago on “Writing From The Male POV,” one of my friends asked if I thought it would be OK to use male characters who are the way women want them to be. I don’t see any problem with that, as long as you know that’s what you’re doing and if you’re writing a novel for women who have expectations for that kind of male character. The hazard would come if you are creating that kind of character and DON’T realize it and imagine that you are really creating a Manly Guy.
Bottom line: Don’t fool yourself. If you write a Less Manly Guy character, be intentional about it.
Of course, the ladies should not complain if we guys create female characters who are made the way WE want them. (Think Lara Croft.)
D.E. Hale wrote:
Ok, so if you’re saying what I think you’re saying, then a manly man would never stop to think about anything “sad” while they are focused on one of those other areas? Goal oriented – got that! So, if my MC’s wife was just murdered by the evil wizard Gorkon, then he will not stop to “mull” it over, instead he will immediately go after the evil wizard to blow him up, behead him, or whatever. Right?
Randy sez: If the murderer were right there, then the Manly Guy will not stop to feel sad, he’ll go into Revenge Mode immediately, and nothing will stop him. But if the murderer is far away (the normal case) then the Manly Guy will go through the normal feelings of loss. Then he will map out a plan of action that will take him to the murderer and he will execute vengeance in a Manly Guy way, which will probably involve high explosives or machine guns or hot pokers placed in inconvenient places.
Holly wrote:
Randy, I am loving this – educational and incredibly entertaining. Ever think of writing a book/let about how women should write men? Something tells me it’d sell like hotcakes.
Randy sez: Good point. I may just need to insert a segment in Fiction 301 on that.
Sarah wrote:
This has been a very informative discussion – thanks Randy, and all who have participated. I have one question to add to the mix. If a male POV character is an artist, is he permitted to think in more than 11 basic colors?
Randy sez: Yes, because that’s part of the job description. However, if a guy actually knows what “mauve” is, then he had better also be gifted in some Manly Guy trait, such as karate or mountain-climbing or beer-drinking.
Insightful discussion! One more observation – the upbringing of manly men. My brother grew up with seven sisters, and while that pushed him to be “the man of the family,” he also has an uncannily dangerous ability to understand how women think.
I don’t know… About 40 years ago I saw a movie, “Tarzan of the Apes”. During those years no sane man on this planet would have called Tarzan within earshot a wimp or a sissy. Yet he cried when some rogue hunter shot one of his ape buddies.
BUT after about two minutes of crying Johnny Weismuller looked up, his eyes still filled with tears. I remember to this day the change of emotions in his eyes. From misery and sorrow to cold fury and hatred, his urge for revenge clearly visible.
As Tarzan got to his feet me and my mates cheered and we couldn’t wait for our hero laying his hands on that murderous bum.
I write for children and youth, so I appreciated the comment on how boys think like men. One of the advantages I have is my husband, who is a public school teacher, grades K-8. He’s a great resource when I have to ask, does my character sound like a real 12 year old boy?
Daan, I remember Tarzan reacting like that! It was great.
As a mother of four boys (and one daughter) I can verify Randy’s opinion that little boys morph into “manly boys” rather quickly. They might cry, yes, and they might even sit on Mom’s lap for years past 4 or 5 but they would never admit it to their friends or be caught dead doing it by their friends. And by age 11, I can assure you that they are already consumed with thinking about food, sex, and blowing things up. The sleep is optional until they are teens and then you can never get them out of bed for school.
My boys never went through a “girls are icky” stage. They have always loved girls. Even my autistic son (who is a twin) had one girl he would single out in his classes every year at school who was “his.” This started at age three.
Oh, and for the sake of the other men who insist football is an obsession, I think that depends on where you live. My boys are more obsessed with motorcycles and fast cars. Which is why their mother risked her life and limb to learn how to ride a motorcycle herself!
Oh, and one more thing. I don’t know about the stellar men on this list, but the men I live with are very uninterested in home decor unless it’s a flourish of dirty clothes, dishes and smelly shoes and socks lying about the house. In that kind of decor they excel greatly.
If you ever have a question about how to write a boy, give me a holler! I think I can help. 🙂
Diane asked about how young boys start thinking like a man. I have 3 boys, ages 7, 5 1/2, and 3. The two older boys already work hard at not crying in a lot of situations (unless there is significant pain involved). You can tell they want to, but they’re trying to hold it back. I don’t go around saying “don’t cry” either. Somewhere it kicks in on its own.
They also love football, GI Joes, and my 7 year old already has a bottomless pit. Thankfully they think girls are yucky still. Hope that helps.
Although I have never written in a man’s point of view, nor do I see any male POV characters in future projects,
this discussion has been extremely helpful. Even when writing in the female’s POV, she will interact with men. We can show the male characters by speech, facial expressions, actions and reactions. This exercise has been great to keep us focused on how our characters, male or female, can be made more believable by a look in the eye or a clenched fist.
Besides Tarzan and Bruce Willis, what about Harrison Ford in Fugitive when he discovers his wife’s body.
Watching movies for just such depictions of emotion
is another great exercise.
Getting a little sociological now, are we? — I’ll play. Jason mentioned his young sons choosing to not cry. And I’m sure you’re right: you don’t go around saying, “Don’t cry”.
I’ve raised 2 boys (now 20 & 22) and I’ve taught preschool for 10 years, ages 4-5. What I’ve observed, and don’t sue me or start throwing textbooks: parents and adults send messages to kids that shape their thinking, whether we know it or not. I don’t think I or my Manly Guy husband have ever told our sons not to cry. But they started being stoic about their tears early on also, and I wonder how many times our non-verbal communication or body language told them they should probably go ahead and suck it up. It was probably about the same time they started saying Mom instead of Mommy.
We can’t help passing our coping skills, our insecurities, everything that shapes us—onto our kids. I have watched kids display a variety of social and emotional coping skills even in a preschool classroom. Parents teach by so much more than words, and too often without realizing it.
Someone once expressed surprise to me that their 4th grade daughter was terrible a snob, but didn’t realize that they’ve been sending her messages all along by talking about the clothes people wear, ridiculing others and most importantly: displaying and passing on their own insecurities when they stress out to make sure they were above ridicule themselves.
I don’t know what this has to do with writing—although the things that make people tick fascinate this wannabe psychologist and give my characters something to tell their therapist. Which I guess would be me.
BTW—I hunted all over RelevantBlog for the book “Lawry’s Tears” and couldn’t find it. Drat. I wanted to read the rest of the story. What would Mother think of Caroline?
Lots of good discussion on this topic. Do you think it’s more of an American man thing or not so cultural? I know some cultures are quite different, and if we have a character from one he should be portrayed accurately.
Randy, please do include a lesson on this topic in your 301. Hope its out before Christmas since it is on my Christmas list. 🙂
When a dear man from India (who attended the International Church within our church) passed away, I was amazed at the men who spoke at the funeral. They were professional men from all over the world, and every one wept unashamedly. I do prefer our “cowboys”, but perhaps I am conditioned to.
Thanks Randy, that makes sense now. I think I’ve got it figured out – at least for today. Tomorrow may be a different matter. Ha! It’s a good thing that I’m married to a very manly man. I’ll just let him read my novel when I’m finished, and he can point out all the places my MC falls short.
Thanks Randy, that makes sense now. I think I’ve got it figured out – at least for today. Tomorrow may be a different matter. Ha! It’s a good thing that I’m married to a very manly man. I’ll just let him read my novel when I’m finished, and he can point out all the places my MC falls short.
This has been a helpful topic for me, as I have youthful males in my story, but no young males in close proximity. When you decide to move on to a new topic, I’ve got a suggestion: plot problems. Here’s mine: My protagonist’s heroic quest endangers her family. Fearful and less naïve now, she sets the goal aside to protect those she loves,but can’t forget it. Eventually she regains her courage and acts on her beliefs—but only after a considerable amount of time has passed and she’s become too miserable to ignore the quest. During this gestational period, she pursues safer goals and tries to avoid making waves that might jeopardize her family’s safety. Her internal pressure builds to do the right thing, but there’s little external conflict, which leads to the dreaded “sagging middle” of the story. Any thoughts on how I can allow her character to develop without losing the story’s momentum?
I watched “She’s the Man” today, where Amanda Bynes impresonates her twin brother. It really helped my thinking in this area.
Daan! I noticed some of your word choices and wondered where you’re from. Then I noticed your surname! Is it common where you’re from? I have a friend named Shaun from South Africa w/ that exact surname. Are you related, somehow or do you know him?
Very common! In fact, the surname “Van der Merwe” in South Africa is as common as “Smith” is in England. There are lots of Van der Merwes over here who are not even remotely related to me but no, I’m afraid I don’t know a gentleman named Shaun Van der Merwe.
Although most Van der Merwes are Afrikaans speaking, there are quite a number of Eglish speaking ones as well.
I guess that explains my English word choices: A mixture of James Hadley Chase, Sydney Sheldon and Ken Follet. Vitually no Shakespeare I’m afraid!
I’ve really been enjoying reading all this about “Manly Guys.” I beg to differ. I think that even manly guys feel pain a lot, and they sometimes aren’t ashamed to show it. I’ve been reading The Iliad, and I seem to recall Hector crying over his wife and baby boy. THE ILIAD!!! That’s one of the oldest fiction books there is…poetry books…and one of the main characters is caught crying. I can’t remember for certain, but if he wasn’t crying than he was at least upset. It depends on the story, doesn’t it? A modern story, set in the 21st century probably wouldn’t have many men crying in it. More classic books, older ones, books set in ‘earlier’ times, might have men crying, whether they’re ashamed of it or not. What about when somebody dies? Is crying permitable then? I probably wouldn’t have men crying unless they were in such total shock that they couldn’t help it or if somebody close to them died. I know that guys don’t feel pain like girls do, and they’re more afraid to show it, but I honestly think that crying is pretty embaressing.
Anna
Thank you so much for addressing the issue of writing a Manly Man. I believe it’s helped reveal a significant flaw in some past pieces I have attempted (which failed). Not only that, but you managed to do so in a way that didn’t make me discouraged, but rather just amused at the whole thought.
I will certainly make sure to pass on your wisdom to other aspiring authors I may come across.
You know, you could make t-shirts: My POV is Manly Man. How’s that for conversation starters? On second thought…
Oh, forgot to add…subtle hint on the high-concept discussion?