Comments on: The Three Act Structure in Epic Series Fiction http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2011/01/18/the-three-act-structure-in-epic-series-fiction/ America's Mad Professor of Fiction Writing Mon, 21 May 2012 04:08:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.3 By: Christophe Desmecht http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2011/01/18/the-three-act-structure-in-epic-series-fiction/#comment-15902 Christophe Desmecht Wed, 19 Jan 2011 06:57:52 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2011/01/18/the-three-act-structure-in-epic-series-fiction/#comment-15902 I find myself fascinated by this: "So I’d say that the Harry Potter series not only has a clear Three-Act Structure in each book, but the series as a whole has a larger Three-Act Structure." I have not yet read any of the HP novels, but this alone is making it more appealing to pick one up. I am, however, very familiar with the Discworld series by Terry Pratchett. There are certain novels there that continue where another left off, but it's not one big continuous story. I guess, the main question that you need to answer for yourself is: "Do I want every novel in my series to stand on its own?" It looks like that's what the HP books do, the Discworld novels certainly do, and where the Lord of the Rings novels fail. I think this makes more than clear what the authors of said novels intended for the series as a whole. I find myself fascinated by this: “So I’d say that the Harry Potter series not only has a clear Three-Act Structure in each book, but the series as a whole has a larger Three-Act Structure.”

I have not yet read any of the HP novels, but this alone is making it more appealing to pick one up.

I am, however, very familiar with the Discworld series by Terry Pratchett. There are certain novels there that continue where another left off, but it’s not one big continuous story.

I guess, the main question that you need to answer for yourself is: “Do I want every novel in my series to stand on its own?”

It looks like that’s what the HP books do, the Discworld novels certainly do, and where the Lord of the Rings novels fail. I think this makes more than clear what the authors of said novels intended for the series as a whole.

]]> By: Sue http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2011/01/18/the-three-act-structure-in-epic-series-fiction/#comment-15910 Sue Wed, 19 Jan 2011 11:29:08 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2011/01/18/the-three-act-structure-in-epic-series-fiction/#comment-15910 Since we are talking about fantasy, I guess that would touch on paranormal romance. I am very fond of JR Ward's Brotherhood of the Black Dagger series. Her model is closer to the one described re: Harry Potter. Yet each book is about a different member of the order with overlapping characters. Since we are talking about fantasy, I guess that would touch on paranormal romance. I am very fond of JR Ward’s Brotherhood of the Black Dagger series.
Her model is closer to the one described re: Harry Potter. Yet each book is about a different member of the order with overlapping characters.

]]> By: Tim http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2011/01/18/the-three-act-structure-in-epic-series-fiction/#comment-15916 Tim Wed, 19 Jan 2011 13:07:31 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2011/01/18/the-three-act-structure-in-epic-series-fiction/#comment-15916 It is funny Randy that how you answered this questions today, because my second book series which was going to be 8 books I just shrunk down into six. The way I was looking at it was two ways, two trilogies with a beginning middle and end, or the way I like to look at it as a 3 act structure. Book 1 intros the main character Book 2&3 make the first half of the second act. Books 4&5 make up the second half with a cliffhanger ending. And book six is act 3. I admit I don't think of this structure in my writing, because when I try to I seem not to understand it. I think subconsciously I do, and it just falls together. I just started reading Stephen Kings book "ON Writing" where he does not plot his novels and looks at stories as fossils that need to be unearthed, and the story natural comes as he writes. I think in away, while I plot my novels it falls in there. Also I would say Lord of the Rings while they were meant to be one big story, which explains why Tolkien just stopped writing in the first two books, could be stand alone, since they each have a goal in mind. The series I talked about above is one giant story, but each book is a stand a lone book, but with each book you need to know the events of the one before it because you will be lost. Same with Harry Potter, if you jump right into Harry Potter while it is a stand a lone book, you would be lost unless you know some basic info on the rest of the books. Tim It is funny Randy that how you answered this questions today, because my second book series which was going to be 8 books I just shrunk down into six. The way I was looking at it was two ways, two trilogies with a beginning middle and end, or the way I like to look at it as a 3 act structure. Book 1 intros the main character Book 2&3 make the first half of the second act. Books 4&5 make up the second half with a cliffhanger ending. And book six is act 3.

I admit I don’t think of this structure in my writing, because when I try to I seem not to understand it. I think subconsciously I do, and it just falls together. I just started reading Stephen Kings book “ON Writing” where he does not plot his novels and looks at stories as fossils that need to be unearthed, and the story natural comes as he writes. I think in away, while I plot my novels it falls in there.

Also I would say Lord of the Rings while they were meant to be one big story, which explains why Tolkien just stopped writing in the first two books, could be stand alone, since they each have a goal in mind. The series I talked about above is one giant story, but each book is a stand a lone book, but with each book you need to know the events of the one before it because you will be lost. Same with Harry Potter, if you jump right into Harry Potter while it is a stand a lone book, you would be lost unless you know some basic info on the rest of the books.

Tim

]]> By: Phillip Conrad http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2011/01/18/the-three-act-structure-in-epic-series-fiction/#comment-15933 Phillip Conrad Wed, 19 Jan 2011 21:50:26 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2011/01/18/the-three-act-structure-in-epic-series-fiction/#comment-15933 A lot of this has to do with the reality of your personal limitations and the fickle nature of the publishing world. If you have no idea when, or if, you are going to be able to complete a series, it's hard to have a meta-plot. I'm pretty sure that's the correct term. I read in an interview that Michael Connelly heard it at a writers conference. Regardless, lots of series fiction is written only while it's still selling well and can end quite abruptly. The obvious example is TV. To actually plan, and execute, a successful three act structured series is a remarkable achievement. If instead, you pick one character to be THE protagonist in each book, you can focus on that character's growth and change. That way you won't ever find yourself in the regrettable situation where your main character is like the Incredible Hulk, always having to revert back to Bruce Banner so he can rage again later. The other side of the coin is something you might also want to avoid. If you have moderate sales of the first two books in a planned trilogy, do you really want to vanquish evil once and for all with your third book? Wouldn't a strategy that allowed you to continue to build the series and your readership be better for everybody? As a reader, I really dislike it when a book ends without a satisfying ending but with the first chapter of the sequel as a "bonus." No matter what your meta-plot strategy, give the reader a good ending for each book or you risk a negative word of mouth backlash. I could think of some recent examples in books, but would rather harp on some movies that were arbitrarily broken up: Back to the Future 2 & 3, The Matrix 2 & 3, Kill Bill 1 & 2. Can anybody honestly say they felt good walking out of the theater after those near-cliffhanger endings? A lot of this has to do with the reality of your personal limitations and the fickle nature of the publishing world. If you have no idea when, or if, you are going to be able to complete a series, it’s hard to have a meta-plot. I’m pretty sure that’s the correct term. I read in an interview that Michael Connelly heard it at a writers conference. Regardless, lots of series fiction is written only while it’s still selling well and can end quite abruptly. The obvious example is TV.

To actually plan, and execute, a successful three act structured series is a remarkable achievement. If instead, you pick one character to be THE protagonist in each book, you can focus on that character’s growth and change. That way you won’t ever find yourself in the regrettable situation where your main character is like the Incredible Hulk, always having to revert back to Bruce Banner so he can rage again later.

The other side of the coin is something you might also want to avoid. If you have moderate sales of the first two books in a planned trilogy, do you really want to vanquish evil once and for all with your third book? Wouldn’t a strategy that allowed you to continue to build the series and your readership be better for everybody?

As a reader, I really dislike it when a book ends without a satisfying ending but with the first chapter of the sequel as a “bonus.” No matter what your meta-plot strategy, give the reader a good ending for each book or you risk a negative word of mouth backlash. I could think of some recent examples in books, but would rather harp on some movies that were arbitrarily broken up: Back to the Future 2 & 3, The Matrix 2 & 3, Kill Bill 1 & 2. Can anybody honestly say they felt good walking out of the theater after those near-cliffhanger endings?

]]> By: Tim http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2011/01/18/the-three-act-structure-in-epic-series-fiction/#comment-15934 Tim Wed, 19 Jan 2011 22:02:14 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2011/01/18/the-three-act-structure-in-epic-series-fiction/#comment-15934 Don't forget Pirates 2&3 though there was a better ending for Pirates 2, but still had that cliffhanger. As for bad endings, you should know the ending of the story before you even begin. That's just me, that way you have something to work towards. Tim Don’t forget Pirates 2&3 though there was a better ending for Pirates 2, but still had that cliffhanger.

As for bad endings, you should know the ending of the story before you even begin. That’s just me, that way you have something to work towards.

Tim

]]> By: Ron http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2011/01/18/the-three-act-structure-in-epic-series-fiction/#comment-15940 Ron Thu, 20 Jan 2011 02:50:38 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2011/01/18/the-three-act-structure-in-epic-series-fiction/#comment-15940 I haven't posted for a long while, but I have been following as time allows. For me, one the of best examples of an epic 3-act trilogy are the original Star Wars trilogy. Each movie/book has it's 3-act format and each is one part of the epic. Episode 4: A New Hope Galactic events force a young, naive farmer to take a key role in the battle of good v. evil. Luke is forced to take action when Owen/Beru are murdered (disaster 1); he escapes Tatooine (Disater 2), only to be trapped on the Death Star (Disater 3); in the end he destroys the Death Star. This is also Act 1 of the Epic: Luke begins his adventure. Episode 5: The Empire Strikes Back Rebels hide on Hoth, Luke is attacked by Yeti-creature (Disaster 1); trains with Yoda but fails cave test (Disaster 2); tries to rescue friends on Bespin, but fails (Disaster 3); and they have to rescue him. This is Act 2 of the Epic: Luke is learning, growing, but seems to fail at every turn. Episode 6: Return of the Jedi Rescue of friends from Jabba (Disaster 1); battle on Endor (Disaster 2); battle with Vader (Disaster 3); Palpatine is killed. This is Act 3 of the Epic: Luke has a plan and everything comes together and in the end Good triumphs over Evil. I haven’t posted for a long while, but I have been following as time allows.

For me, one the of best examples of an epic 3-act trilogy are the original Star Wars trilogy. Each movie/book has it’s 3-act format and each is one part of the epic.

Episode 4: A New Hope
Galactic events force a young, naive farmer to take a key role in the battle of good v. evil. Luke is forced to take action when Owen/Beru are murdered (disaster 1); he escapes Tatooine (Disater 2), only to be trapped on the Death Star (Disater 3); in the end he destroys the Death Star. This is also Act 1 of the Epic: Luke begins his adventure.

Episode 5: The Empire Strikes Back
Rebels hide on Hoth, Luke is attacked by Yeti-creature (Disaster 1); trains with Yoda but fails cave test (Disaster 2); tries to rescue friends on Bespin, but fails (Disaster 3); and they have to rescue him. This is Act 2 of the Epic: Luke is learning, growing, but seems to fail at every turn.

Episode 6: Return of the Jedi
Rescue of friends from Jabba (Disaster 1); battle on Endor (Disaster 2); battle with Vader (Disaster 3); Palpatine is killed. This is Act 3 of the Epic: Luke has a plan and everything comes together and in the end Good triumphs over Evil.

]]> By: Val Clark http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2011/01/18/the-three-act-structure-in-epic-series-fiction/#comment-15941 Val Clark Thu, 20 Jan 2011 03:30:45 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2011/01/18/the-three-act-structure-in-epic-series-fiction/#comment-15941 I wrote the first book of my young adult fantasy trilogy in a seat of the pants way and am now tweaking the final (of about 20)draft. After reading Dummies I had another look at it and discovered that I had followed the 3 act form without even thinking about it. However I realised that the end of acts 2 and 3 needed boosting. I'm much happier with the result which both ties the loose ends together and propels the reader into the next book. So, I think you can do both. See the meta narrative as three acts and find the three acts in each book. Good luck Amadeus. I wrote the first book of my young adult fantasy trilogy in a seat of the pants way and am now tweaking the final (of about 20)draft. After reading Dummies I had another look at it and discovered that I had followed the 3 act form without even thinking about it. However I realised that the end of acts 2 and 3 needed boosting. I’m much happier with the result which both ties the loose ends together and propels the reader into the next book. So, I think you can do both. See the meta narrative as three acts and find the three acts in each book. Good luck Amadeus.

]]> By: James Thayer http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2011/01/18/the-three-act-structure-in-epic-series-fiction/#comment-15962 James Thayer Thu, 20 Jan 2011 17:10:59 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2011/01/18/the-three-act-structure-in-epic-series-fiction/#comment-15962 I think it's important for writers planning a series to focus on the first book, and have the first book contain all that a stand-alone book would have, including a complete ending. This means that the main story question (Does he get revenge? Will he escape? Will she find her fortune?) is fully answered at the end of the novel, and that loose ends are tied up. (If the character Xeno is coughing raggedly in chapter four, it needs to be explained by the end of the novel.) Leaving large and small questions unanswered at the end of a novel will anger readers, who might not go on to the second book to find them. There is usually a lot of room in a novel for development of a sequel (new characters, new enemies) but the main questions of the first novel should be completely answered in the first novel. I think it’s important for writers planning a series to focus on the first book, and have the first book contain all that a stand-alone book would have, including a complete ending. This means that the main story question (Does he get revenge? Will he escape? Will she find her fortune?) is fully answered at the end of the novel, and that loose ends are tied up. (If the character Xeno is coughing raggedly in chapter four, it needs to be explained by the end of the novel.) Leaving large and small questions unanswered at the end of a novel will anger readers, who might not go on to the second book to find them. There is usually a lot of room in a novel for development of a sequel (new characters, new enemies) but the main questions of the first novel should be completely answered in the first novel.

]]> By: Amanda http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2011/01/18/the-three-act-structure-in-epic-series-fiction/#comment-15973 Amanda Fri, 21 Jan 2011 01:10:00 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2011/01/18/the-three-act-structure-in-epic-series-fiction/#comment-15973 Yes, I believe the Twilight series has a clear 3 act structure. The first book introduces the characters and ends with Bella almost killed. The second and third books bring the characters through a series of near-death experiences. The second act ends 1/4 way through the final book when Bella almost dies again and the takes off in a whole new direction with Bella "growing up" and fighting for her family, instead of the other way around as it has been throughout the books. I never thought of that before but it's very interesting and has cleared up how my books acts are structured as well. Thanks, Randy Yes, I believe the Twilight series has a clear 3 act structure. The first book introduces the characters and ends with Bella almost killed. The second and third books bring the characters through a series of near-death experiences. The second act ends 1/4 way through the final book when Bella almost dies again and the takes off in a whole new direction with Bella “growing up” and fighting for her family, instead of the other way around as it has been throughout the books. I never thought of that before but it’s very interesting and has cleared up how my books acts are structured as well. Thanks, Randy

]]> By: Kassandra Morrison http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2011/01/18/the-three-act-structure-in-epic-series-fiction/#comment-16148 Kassandra Morrison Mon, 24 Jan 2011 08:27:33 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2011/01/18/the-three-act-structure-in-epic-series-fiction/#comment-16148 I would say that Twilight has a three act structure with the first disaster when Bella is in the wrong place at the wrong time in the Baseball Field and the trouble magnet attracts a vampire (James). Two I guess would be the escalation of the Victoria Problem and ends with an attack by Victoria on the Cullen's in Eclipse. Third would be Bella's pregnancy in Breaking Dawn and the impending visit of the Volturi. Thats my ideas anyway. I would say that Twilight has a three act structure with the first disaster when Bella is in the wrong place at the wrong time in the Baseball Field and the trouble magnet attracts a vampire (James).
Two I guess would be the escalation of the Victoria Problem and ends with an attack by Victoria on the Cullen’s in Eclipse.
Third would be Bella’s pregnancy in Breaking Dawn and the impending visit of the Volturi.
Thats my ideas anyway.

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