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	<title>Comments on: Critiquing Davalynn</title>
	<link>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/</link>
	<description>America's Mad Professor of Fiction Writing</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 16:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Davalynn</title>
		<link>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6830</link>
		<author>Davalynn</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 03:11:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6830</guid>
					<description>Randy,

Thanks so much. What a difference a couple of words make! I plan to go back through my manuscript with a keen eye for what Porter actually "sees." 

An agent has been considering this middle-grade novel for the past four weeks, and just yesterday told me Porter's voice needed more authenticity. This was her very pleasant way of telling me thanks, but no thanks, and I appreciate her courtesy rather than a form letter. (I have plenty of those already, and will probably collect more!) 

Anyway, I'll tweak the manuscript according to your critique and start shopping it around again.

Glad things are looking up with your family.

Thanks.

Davalynn</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Randy,</p>
<p>Thanks so much. What a difference a couple of words make! I plan to go back through my manuscript with a keen eye for what Porter actually &#8220;sees.&#8221; </p>
<p>An agent has been considering this middle-grade novel for the past four weeks, and just yesterday told me Porter&#8217;s voice needed more authenticity. This was her very pleasant way of telling me thanks, but no thanks, and I appreciate her courtesy rather than a form letter. (I have plenty of those already, and will probably collect more!) </p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;ll tweak the manuscript according to your critique and start shopping it around again.</p>
<p>Glad things are looking up with your family.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>Davalynn</p>
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		<title>By: Camille</title>
		<link>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6831</link>
		<author>Camille</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 06:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6831</guid>
					<description>Well done, Davalynn. Thanks for taking me back to the smell of pre-teen sweat. That definitely counts as a powerful emotional experience. :)

If you stop and think about it, aren't we kind of creepy and disturbed to want to put readers inside our characters' skins? 

Thanks, Randy. And thanks for the e-zine. I was scrolling thru expecting an example of tactical writing and hoping for an exploding chess game. Maybe next month.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well done, Davalynn. Thanks for taking me back to the smell of pre-teen sweat. That definitely counts as a powerful emotional experience. <img src='http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>If you stop and think about it, aren&#8217;t we kind of creepy and disturbed to want to put readers inside our characters&#8217; skins? </p>
<p>Thanks, Randy. And thanks for the e-zine. I was scrolling thru expecting an example of tactical writing and hoping for an exploding chess game. Maybe next month.</p>
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		<title>By: Lois</title>
		<link>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6834</link>
		<author>Lois</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:11:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6834</guid>
					<description>Yes, Davalynn, and the MRUs really show up well to us who are watching for them, but not obtrusive to the innocent reader. 

Camille, although I hadn't thought of it before, aren't we writers all mad word scientists, 
a la our great one?

Randy, I too, am looking forward to the next article on tactical writing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Davalynn, and the MRUs really show up well to us who are watching for them, but not obtrusive to the innocent reader. </p>
<p>Camille, although I hadn&#8217;t thought of it before, aren&#8217;t we writers all mad word scientists,<br />
a la our great one?</p>
<p>Randy, I too, am looking forward to the next article on tactical writing.</p>
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		<title>By: Sherri</title>
		<link>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6835</link>
		<author>Sherri</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6835</guid>
					<description>I have to say I was impressed with your writing Davalynn.  I thought for sure Randy would say it was perfect the way it was.  But, leave it to him to eek out some improvement.  An astute, objective opinion is a valuable resource.  Thanks Randy.

Randy, you pointed out that Porter couldn't know that James groped for him.  I totally missed that, but after bringing it to our attention, that made a great deal of sense.  I liked Davalynn's use of "groped in the darkness" to illustrate the setting and was mildly disappointed that you felt it necessary to remove.  However, I concede you were correct to do so.  It does work better.

Okay, so now you've convinced me of how that little phrase was responsible for removing the reader from being in the POV's skin.  So, I was wondering... in the 5th paragraph, why didn't you make the same observation?  It seems to me that Porter grabbing James' arm so deliberately would require site.  Would you consider it an improvement to insert the "groped in the darkness" sentiment but applying it to the POV.  Something like:

Porter slashed through the darkness with his hand.  It landed on James' arm.  He gripped it firmly and pulled James toward the bar. “Come on. Let’s hide back here,” he whispered. “And stop squeaking!”

Something like that.  I'm sure you or Davalynn could better write what I wrote, but it illustrates my question.  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say I was impressed with your writing Davalynn.  I thought for sure Randy would say it was perfect the way it was.  But, leave it to him to eek out some improvement.  An astute, objective opinion is a valuable resource.  Thanks Randy.</p>
<p>Randy, you pointed out that Porter couldn&#8217;t know that James groped for him.  I totally missed that, but after bringing it to our attention, that made a great deal of sense.  I liked Davalynn&#8217;s use of &#8220;groped in the darkness&#8221; to illustrate the setting and was mildly disappointed that you felt it necessary to remove.  However, I concede you were correct to do so.  It does work better.</p>
<p>Okay, so now you&#8217;ve convinced me of how that little phrase was responsible for removing the reader from being in the POV&#8217;s skin.  So, I was wondering&#8230; in the 5th paragraph, why didn&#8217;t you make the same observation?  It seems to me that Porter grabbing James&#8217; arm so deliberately would require site.  Would you consider it an improvement to insert the &#8220;groped in the darkness&#8221; sentiment but applying it to the POV.  Something like:</p>
<p>Porter slashed through the darkness with his hand.  It landed on James&#8217; arm.  He gripped it firmly and pulled James toward the bar. “Come on. Let’s hide back here,” he whispered. “And stop squeaking!”</p>
<p>Something like that.  I&#8217;m sure you or Davalynn could better write what I wrote, but it illustrates my question.  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathryn</title>
		<link>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6836</link>
		<author>Kathryn</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:55:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6836</guid>
					<description>Good job Davalynn!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good job Davalynn!</p>
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		<title>By: Davalynn</title>
		<link>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6837</link>
		<author>Davalynn</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:58:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6837</guid>
					<description>Camille,

Creepy and disturbed? No kidding. So disturbed, in fact, that I sometimes look around at places where I live and "remember" doing things with Porter and James. The setting is my hometown with a different name. 

As I wrote the book, I felt like I was "there" with the boys, following them through their adventures. However, after Randy's comments, and mulling over this blog on my way to work, I realized that could be my POV problem. I've been WITH the boys, I haven't been IN Porter. It really does make a difference, small but important.

Sherri,

I wondered about the "groped" part, too, but like I mentioned, I was "with" the boys watching them as I wrote. (Hopefully, other writers won't think I'm totally nuts.) If I stay in Porter's head, and keep the reader there, does Porter know James is groping? Or does he just feel his hand on his arm????

I sure like having other eyes look at my work; it helps me see more clearly.

Thanks, everyone.

Davalynn</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Camille,</p>
<p>Creepy and disturbed? No kidding. So disturbed, in fact, that I sometimes look around at places where I live and &#8220;remember&#8221; doing things with Porter and James. The setting is my hometown with a different name. </p>
<p>As I wrote the book, I felt like I was &#8220;there&#8221; with the boys, following them through their adventures. However, after Randy&#8217;s comments, and mulling over this blog on my way to work, I realized that could be my POV problem. I&#8217;ve been WITH the boys, I haven&#8217;t been IN Porter. It really does make a difference, small but important.</p>
<p>Sherri,</p>
<p>I wondered about the &#8220;groped&#8221; part, too, but like I mentioned, I was &#8220;with&#8221; the boys watching them as I wrote. (Hopefully, other writers won&#8217;t think I&#8217;m totally nuts.) If I stay in Porter&#8217;s head, and keep the reader there, does Porter know James is groping? Or does he just feel his hand on his arm????</p>
<p>I sure like having other eyes look at my work; it helps me see more clearly.</p>
<p>Thanks, everyone.</p>
<p>Davalynn</p>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6838</link>
		<author>Larry</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:13:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6838</guid>
					<description>Here's a thought:

James made a tight little squeaking noise like a girl.

Then, further down I'd write the last paragraph Like this:

“Shut up!” Porter rasped. He could feel James begin to sweat. He could smell James begin to sweat. But he had little time to think about it. A spot of thin light grew inside the hole and spilled into the room. Two hunched-over men who stood straight up and stepped out of the opening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a thought:</p>
<p>James made a tight little squeaking noise like a girl.</p>
<p>Then, further down I&#8217;d write the last paragraph Like this:</p>
<p>“Shut up!” Porter rasped. He could feel James begin to sweat. He could smell James begin to sweat. But he had little time to think about it. A spot of thin light grew inside the hole and spilled into the room. Two hunched-over men who stood straight up and stepped out of the opening.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6839</link>
		<author>Larry</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:17:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6839</guid>
					<description>Here’s a thought:

James made a tight little squeaking noise like a girl.

Then, further down (I meant to say) I’d write the last paragraph Like this:

“Shut up!” Porter rasped. He could feel James begin to sweat. He could smell James begin to sweat. But he had little time to think about it. A spot of thin light grew inside the hole and spilled into the room. Two hunched-over men stood straight up and stepped out of the opening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here’s a thought:</p>
<p>James made a tight little squeaking noise like a girl.</p>
<p>Then, further down (I meant to say) I’d write the last paragraph Like this:</p>
<p>“Shut up!” Porter rasped. He could feel James begin to sweat. He could smell James begin to sweat. But he had little time to think about it. A spot of thin light grew inside the hole and spilled into the room. Two hunched-over men stood straight up and stepped out of the opening.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Hake</title>
		<link>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6840</link>
		<author>Mary Hake</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:17:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6840</guid>
					<description>He could feel or hear or sense the groping. As your eyes adjust to darkness, you can see a bit, unless it's totally pitch black. If they were close, Porter could grab his arm in the darkness without seeing exactly where it was.
Good writing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He could feel or hear or sense the groping. As your eyes adjust to darkness, you can see a bit, unless it&#8217;s totally pitch black. If they were close, Porter could grab his arm in the darkness without seeing exactly where it was.<br />
Good writing.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristina</title>
		<link>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6841</link>
		<author>Kristina</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6841</guid>
					<description>Hello. 

I'm new here...

Davalynn--what an excellent piece of writing. I'm working on my first novel and trying to iron out all the crinkles with the M/R units. 

I do have a question about Davalynn's motivation sentence (for anyone that can help):  

"James was making a tight little squeaking noise like a girl."

I know "James was making a tight little squeaking noise" is what the POV character hears, but wouldn't  
"like a girl" be a reaction? "like a girl" would be in Porter's head--his thought, wouldn't it be? Does it matter if it's done in a motivation or a reaction? Again, this question is for my learning purpose. 

Thanks a lot!

Kristina :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m new here&#8230;</p>
<p>Davalynn&#8211;what an excellent piece of writing. I&#8217;m working on my first novel and trying to iron out all the crinkles with the M/R units. </p>
<p>I do have a question about Davalynn&#8217;s motivation sentence (for anyone that can help):  </p>
<p>&#8220;James was making a tight little squeaking noise like a girl.&#8221;</p>
<p>I know &#8220;James was making a tight little squeaking noise&#8221; is what the POV character hears, but wouldn&#8217;t<br />
&#8220;like a girl&#8221; be a reaction? &#8220;like a girl&#8221; would be in Porter&#8217;s head&#8211;his thought, wouldn&#8217;t it be? Does it matter if it&#8217;s done in a motivation or a reaction? Again, this question is for my learning purpose. </p>
<p>Thanks a lot!</p>
<p>Kristina <img src='http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Avily Jerome</title>
		<link>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6842</link>
		<author>Avily Jerome</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 23:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6842</guid>
					<description>Great work, Davalynn!

Thanks for the thoughts, Randy.

Some day when I can think of just the right passage to post for critique, I will...

But I'm not sure I want to know all the things that are wrong with it. And I don't have any idea what scene to use.

:)

Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great work, Davalynn!</p>
<p>Thanks for the thoughts, Randy.</p>
<p>Some day when I can think of just the right passage to post for critique, I will&#8230;</p>
<p>But I&#8217;m not sure I want to know all the things that are wrong with it. And I don&#8217;t have any idea what scene to use.</p>
<p> <img src='http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Lynda</title>
		<link>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6843</link>
		<author>Lynda</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 01:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6843</guid>
					<description>Good work Davalynn. I loved the "sweat" part too. Hehe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good work Davalynn. I loved the &#8220;sweat&#8221; part too. Hehe.</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6848</link>
		<author>Don</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 17:30:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6848</guid>
					<description>Good passage. First time through, I got a little hung up on the "beginning to sweat" repetition. The sensual progression from feeling to smelling is strong, so we want to keep that in the passage, but my left brain was asking "Doesn't the smell mean we're some time after merely 'beginning to' sweat?"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good passage. First time through, I got a little hung up on the &#8220;beginning to sweat&#8221; repetition. The sensual progression from feeling to smelling is strong, so we want to keep that in the passage, but my left brain was asking &#8220;Doesn&#8217;t the smell mean we&#8217;re some time after merely &#8216;beginning to&#8217; sweat?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Roni</title>
		<link>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6849</link>
		<author>Roni</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 20:08:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6849</guid>
					<description>Hi everyone, this is my first time here. If I'm out of line, let me know. I would have switched the first line and had Porter turn the light out first and then speak. And I agree with Don on the sweat part. Perhaps Porter could have felt James' sweat seep through his sleeve to his own skin. The passage is good...made me want to read more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi everyone, this is my first time here. If I&#8217;m out of line, let me know. I would have switched the first line and had Porter turn the light out first and then speak. And I agree with Don on the sweat part. Perhaps Porter could have felt James&#8217; sweat seep through his sleeve to his own skin. The passage is good&#8230;made me want to read more.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6859</link>
		<author>Sean</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:04:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6859</guid>
					<description>Kristina-

Nice catch.  I think that this is actually perfect where it is, although it does violate the standard MRU setup.  I'm thinking it's another example of paralanguage--see Randy's post a bit back critiquing Camille's piece.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kristina-</p>
<p>Nice catch.  I think that this is actually perfect where it is, although it does violate the standard MRU setup.  I&#8217;m thinking it&#8217;s another example of paralanguage&#8211;see Randy&#8217;s post a bit back critiquing Camille&#8217;s piece.</p>
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		<title>By: Kristina</title>
		<link>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6874</link>
		<author>Kristina</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/11/13/critiquing-davalynn/#comment-6874</guid>
					<description>Thank you, Sean. I'll check out Randy's post. Wow. This website is really helpful. Sooooooooooooo glad it was recommended to me. 

Kristina :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Sean. I&#8217;ll check out Randy&#8217;s post. Wow. This website is really helpful. Sooooooooooooo glad it was recommended to me. </p>
<p>Kristina <img src='http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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