Comments on: Thoughts on Subtexting

By: Andra M.

Andra M. — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:13:08 +0000

I don’t know if the Alice in Wonderland example is full of subtext, or merely playing with words. My reaction is that these characters are so different from each other, they aren’t communicating well.

Maybe that’s the subtext - the inability to communicate.

By: Daan Van der Merwe

Daan Van der Merwe — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:42:14 +0000

I have not read Alice in Wonderland either, but I like this dialogue, because it is not ordinary conversation and therefore not boring. If I understand the meaning of subtexting correctly, I see nothing of it here.

This March Hare fellow seems to be even more rude than a crooked politician.

By: Lois Hudson

Lois Hudson — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:55:07 +0000

Oh, gentlemen, gentlemen! You’ve not read Alice?
Must be a guy thing. As a mother of two sons, I discovered after they were half-grown that I had neglected their education. They weren’t interested in the children’s literature I grew up with. The siren of sports and their dad got to them first.

Anyway, I’m relieved that subtexting is not a mechanical thing that has rules and regulations. Thanks, Randy. I’m looking forward to more illustrations.

By: Robert Treskillard

Robert Treskillard — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:59:06 +0000

If this isn’t subtexting, then I would say it is a distant cousin. Subtexting is just a form of verbal sparring where the dialog isn’t what it seems.

In the Alice In Wonderland example, the dialog is also not what it seems. Besides Alice, the other two are speaking in riddles and the meaning of their words is different from what it appears.

“Your hair wants cutting” is probably referring to the rabbit, or “hare”, and not Alice’s hair, etc.

The problem is that there may be idiom’s in this text that have fallen out of usage, making it harder for 21st century readers to understand.

By: Mary Hake

Mary Hake — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:16:15 +0000

I think you’ve deprived yourself of a famous classic. Alice in Wonderland has depth beyond a childhood fantasy and is often referenced, so you should be familiar with it. The wordplay is fun too. I know men who enjoy it also.

By: Julie

Julie — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:04:08 +0000

ALthough i’ve not read Alice and Wonderland, i think i may recognize this scene from the Disney movie. If not, I think I can still decode it well enough…

It seems to me like the Hare and the Hatter are both very curios about Alice. So, it seems as if they’re trying to toy with her. The subtexting is in them not saying, “Who are you and what are you doing here in Wonderland, and at my table?” As for Alice, much like Harry, she’s blissfully oblivious to what they’re trying to do.

My take on it, anyways.

By: Julie

Julie — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:04:42 +0000

Alice in Wonderland*

whoops

By: Wayne

Wayne — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:16:54 +0000

“Subtexting happens when the characters, for one reason or another, can’t say what they really think.”

Interesting observation.

So subtext would then seem to be a literary technique like dramatic irony involving information withheld from the characters.

But you say “I don’t plan subtexting either. I just write.” Why not plan subtext? Shouldn’t an author plan what info to withhold?

Also, what is the broader term for literary techniques that withhold information?

Thanks for a great blog.

By: Elizabeth

Elizabeth — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 21:09:58 +0000

I don’t think the Alice excerpt is subtext, per se; it’s puns, wordplay, the author and the reader having a joke at the expense of the characters. (And I must add my voice to the throng urging you to read it; Carroll’s work is full of delight.)

You said that you “don’t plan subtexting either. I just write.” which I’m surprised to hear; when I write dialogue or interior monologue, I’m very aware of what my characters aren’t saying, as much as I am of what they are — perhaps I’ve spent too much time studying Pinter, but that’s crucial for my character development.

By: Pam Halter

Pam Halter — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 18:08:07 +0000

I think the Mad Hatter is simply mad … therefore his dialogue reveals that. He’s a delicious character and his interaction with the March Hare and the Dormouse is hilarious! I love this scene because it’s so much fun.

I don’t see any subtexting except for maybe what Julie said.

By: Gerhi Janse van Vuuren

Gerhi Janse van Vuuren — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 20:27:25 +0000

Alice in Wonderland is written seemingly nonsensical but is in fact satirically critical of Carroll’s Britian and society. The Hatter’s tea party is a particularly nonsensical interlude subtexting modern morals and propriety in this case concerning tea parties.
Alice, wandering around happens on the tea party and invites herself. The conversation picks up right after that.

`Have some wine,’ the March Hare said in an encouraging tone.

The March Hare is using and encouraging tone but he is in fact discouraging. The discouraging part is in offering wine, because there isn’t any. His line mocks the idea of not saying what you want to say, which is “We don’t want you here.” which he of course says just after.

The problem with subtext in Alice is that one line has subtext, the next doesn’t. One, line’s subtext refers to text in the story while the other refers to text (culture) outside.

Either way. Read Alice, the original. The Disney version is about as similar to the original as what Baseball is like Football. Sure, you play both with a ball.

Looking forward to more discussion about subtext though. Sorry I dragged everybody of track with a bit of nonsense.