Comments on: Three Questions And A Critique http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/ America's Mad Professor of Fiction Writing Fri, 08 Aug 2008 20:52:35 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.3 By: yeggy http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/#comment-5454 yeggy Tue, 06 May 2008 10:26:42 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/#comment-5454 Wow!!!! Er, wow. Lots to play with there. Will do. Thanks. Wow!!!!

Er, wow.

Lots to play with there. Will do.

Thanks.

]]> By: Brian T. Carroll http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/#comment-5455 Brian T. Carroll Tue, 06 May 2008 12:49:40 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/#comment-5455 Randy, Since leaving Mount Hermon, I have been thinking more about the division between literary/non-literary novels. I have always thought I was writing a literary novel, but the tendency of workshops is to push in opposite direction. As I have reread some classics (To Kill a Mocking Bird, Death Comes to the Archbishop, Peace Like a River, Heart of Darkness) it seems to me that literary novels are freed from the scene/sequel tyranny in favor of delayed gratification. Literary novels are allowed to take longer establishing character and story world. By the end of the book, we can expect electric moments (okay, maybe not from a book like Hemmingway’s The Sun Also Rises) but the reader is willing to be seduced for 200 pages by the style, the characters, and the story world. They also expect more from theme, which is why English classes will teach a literary novel that sold 10,000 copies in its first run 50 years ago over a blockbuster that sold 250,000 copies last year. Because workshops only look at the first 20 or 30 pages, they work against that. After Mount Hermon, I sent my Project-after-Friday-10:03 to a reader and she questioned whether I was really targeting Literary, because I had too much action in my first pages. I'm now pondering how to strike a happy medium. Randy,
Since leaving Mount Hermon, I have been thinking more about the division between literary/non-literary novels. I have always thought I was writing a literary novel, but the tendency of workshops is to push in opposite direction. As I have reread some classics (To Kill a Mocking Bird, Death Comes to the Archbishop, Peace Like a River, Heart of Darkness) it seems to me that literary novels are freed from the scene/sequel tyranny in favor of delayed gratification. Literary novels are allowed to take longer establishing character and story world. By the end of the book, we can expect electric moments (okay, maybe not from a book like Hemmingway’s The Sun Also Rises) but the reader is willing to be seduced for 200 pages by the style, the characters, and the story world. They also expect more from theme, which is why English classes will teach a literary novel that sold 10,000 copies in its first run 50 years ago over a blockbuster that sold 250,000 copies last year. Because workshops only look at the first 20 or 30 pages, they work against that. After Mount Hermon, I sent my Project-after-Friday-10:03 to a reader and she questioned whether I was really targeting Literary, because I had too much action in my first pages. I’m now pondering how to strike a happy medium.

]]> By: Andie Mock http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/#comment-5458 Andie Mock Tue, 06 May 2008 15:26:42 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/#comment-5458 The Rule of One reminds me of that old software development saw, "How do you slow down a release?" Add more programmers. The Rule of One reminds me of that old software development saw, “How do you slow down a release?” Add more programmers.

]]> By: Pam Halter http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/#comment-5461 Pam Halter Tue, 06 May 2008 17:47:05 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/#comment-5461 Is Yeggy's paragraph the beginning of the story? If so, and the baby album is extremely important somehow, we would need to know a little more about why Lauren is dashing up the stairs to get it. If you are afraid for your life, why would you stop to grab something sentimental? It has to factor in as necessary to the plot, like in Brandilyn Collin's book Crimson Sunset. The main character, Carla, is running for her life, but she stops to grab an old diary, which proves to be the lynch pin that brings down the bad guys ... which she hints at in the beginning so we know Carla is not just being mushy. Is Yeggy’s paragraph the beginning of the story? If so, and the baby album is extremely important somehow, we would need to know a little more about why Lauren is dashing up the stairs to get it.

If you are afraid for your life, why would you stop to grab something sentimental? It has to factor in as necessary to the plot, like in Brandilyn Collin’s book Crimson Sunset. The main character, Carla, is running for her life, but she stops to grab an old diary, which proves to be the lynch pin that brings down the bad guys … which she hints at in the beginning so we know Carla is not just being mushy.

]]> By: Kristi Holl http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/#comment-5462 Kristi Holl Tue, 06 May 2008 21:37:55 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/#comment-5462 Great study here--even though I write mostly middle grade, there are still these distinctions. We have to hit the floor running--but not with six characters and three plots in the opening. I don't know how the writer even keeps it all straight! Great study here–even though I write mostly middle grade, there are still these distinctions. We have to hit the floor running–but not with six characters and three plots in the opening. I don’t know how the writer even keeps it all straight!

]]> By: yeggy http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/#comment-5471 yeggy Wed, 07 May 2008 08:09:09 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/#comment-5471 I've just been given a weeks work with the Northern Territory Writers Centre as we prepare for our Writers Festival Wordstorm. (You can download a PDF of the prog if you're interested in seeing what we do.) Consequently it's going to be a week before I get to tackle the opening. I’ve just been given a weeks work with the Northern Territory Writers Centre as we prepare for our Writers Festival Wordstorm.
(You can download a PDF of the prog if you’re interested in seeing what we do.)
Consequently it’s going to be a week before I get to tackle the opening.

]]> By: Linda Harris http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/#comment-5477 Linda Harris Wed, 07 May 2008 21:44:38 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/#comment-5477 Too many exclamation marks--that's one of my pet peeves. This is my rule: If it's an exclamation, it needs an exclamation mark. If it's not an exclamation, find another way to emphasize without an exclamation mark. Think of it this way: We don't use question marks willy-nilly--only for questions. Why use exclamation marks that way? Too many exclamation marks–that’s one of my pet peeves. This is my rule: If it’s an exclamation, it needs an exclamation mark. If it’s not an exclamation, find another way to emphasize without an exclamation mark. Think of it this way: We don’t use question marks willy-nilly–only for questions. Why use exclamation marks that way?

]]> By: Camille http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/#comment-5479 Camille Thu, 08 May 2008 06:18:59 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/#comment-5479 Define exclamation, if you please. So it's not just used to show someone is yelling? Oops. 1. "I'm getting so sick of the way you kids talk back to me!" We all watched in breathless fascination as our mom's face changed from blotchy---except the dead white part right around her lips---to a spectacular show of purples and reds. 2. "I'm getting so sick of the way you talk back to me." Mom's flashing eyes and flaring nostrils kept pretty good time with her heaving bosom and the vein throbbing in her neck. 3. "I'm getting so sick of the way you talk back to me," Mom exclaimed. btw - Happy Mother's Day, moms. Define exclamation, if you please. So it’s not just used to show someone is yelling? Oops.

1. “I’m getting so sick of the way you kids talk back to me!”

We all watched in breathless fascination as our mom’s face changed from blotchy—except the dead white part right around her lips—to a spectacular show of purples and reds.

2. “I’m getting so sick of the way you talk back to me.”

Mom’s flashing eyes and flaring nostrils kept pretty good time with her heaving bosom and the vein throbbing in her neck.

3. “I’m getting so sick of the way you talk back to me,” Mom exclaimed.

btw - Happy Mother’s Day, moms.

]]> By: Pauine Youd http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/#comment-5488 Pauine Youd Thu, 08 May 2008 21:26:29 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/#comment-5488 Is Malcolm by George McDonald, a literary novel? Pauline Youd Is Malcolm by George McDonald, a literary novel?
Pauline Youd

]]> By: Seerring http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/#comment-5527 Seerring Mon, 12 May 2008 03:58:38 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/#comment-5527 Yeggy, I have to disagree with Randy somewhat. I think the exclamation points were all used properly and effectively. The first three show people shouting as opposed to normal voices, and since Mum doesn't use them, it really points out how Mum is not connected with the agitation the others are feeling. Maybe she's in denial, or maybe she really doesn't understand. Both go well with her taking the time to get the baby pictures. To drop those exclamation points would weaken that contrast. The final exclamation point emphasizes Colin's anger. His two previous sentences don't have exclamation points, even though he's certainly shouting. This shows that, though spoken loudly, these two sentences don't have the same emotional violence as his final sentence. I agree that the start of any story should limit characters and plots as severely as possible to give the reader time to get used to them, but I don't think that's truly a problem with this snippit. I think the real issue is that this isn't the true start of the story. You're jumping into the middle of things. Nothing wrong with that, but *in media res* doesn't leave room for immediate explanations of things. It does, however, promise that those explanations will begin to show up at the first quiet moment we come across. That quiet moment is where the text (figuratively) doubles back on itself to produce the true beginning of the story. This snippit simply isn't long enough to reach that point in the story. >>Rissa turned to her dad and gave him the look. “You’re the one that got us into this in the first place. You and your stupid feud with Richard.” Colin gritted his teeth. The knuckles of his hands whitened as he tipped his head back ... Yeggy,

I have to disagree with Randy somewhat.

I think the exclamation points were all used properly and effectively. The first three show people shouting as opposed to normal voices, and since Mum doesn’t use them, it really points out how Mum is not connected with the agitation the others are feeling. Maybe she’s in denial, or maybe she really doesn’t understand. Both go well with her taking the time to get the baby pictures. To drop those exclamation points would weaken that contrast.

The final exclamation point emphasizes Colin’s anger. His two previous sentences don’t have exclamation points, even though he’s certainly shouting. This shows that, though spoken loudly, these two sentences don’t have the same emotional violence as his final sentence.

I agree that the start of any story should limit characters and plots as severely as possible to give the reader time to get used to them, but I don’t think that’s truly a problem with this snippit. I think the real issue is that this isn’t the true start of the story.

You’re jumping into the middle of things. Nothing wrong with that, but *in media res* doesn’t leave room for immediate explanations of things. It does, however, promise that those explanations will begin to show up at the first quiet moment we come across. That quiet moment is where the text (figuratively) doubles back on itself to produce the true beginning of the story. This snippit simply isn’t long enough to reach that point in the story.

>>Rissa turned to her dad and gave him the look. “You’re the one that got us into this in the first place. You and your stupid feud with Richard.”

Colin gritted his teeth. The knuckles of his hands whitened as he tipped his head back …

]]> By: Seerring http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/#comment-5528 Seerring Mon, 12 May 2008 04:01:20 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/#comment-5528 (cont.) >>Rissa turned to her dad and gave him the look. “You’re the one that got us into this in the first place. You and your stupid feud with Richard.” Colin gritted his teeth. The knuckles of his hands whitened as he tipped his head back ... (cont.)

>>Rissa turned to her dad and gave him the look. “You’re the one that got us into this in the first place. You and your stupid feud with Richard.”

Colin gritted his teeth. The knuckles of his hands whitened as he tipped his head back …

]]> By: Seerring http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/#comment-5529 Seerring Mon, 12 May 2008 04:01:58 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2008/05/05/three-questions-and-a-critique/#comment-5529 >>Rissa turned to her dad and gave him the look. “You’re the one that got us into this in the first place. You and your stupid feud with Richard.” Colin gritted his teeth. The knuckles of his hands whitened as he tipped his head back This is the only part I stumbled over. Rissa's paragraph is clearly referring to story stuff I haven't seen, which makes the whole snippit feel like it comes from somewhere further along in the story, and not the opening at all. Then, I'm not sure if Colin's reaction is to Rissa for accusing him, or to Lauren for delaying. If it's to Rissa, maybe he should respond to Rissa instead of ignoring her. If this is in Colin's POV, his response could be internal and hidden from Rissa, but not from the reader. If his reaction is to Lauren, you might just delete Rissa's paragraph. The feud with Richard seems irrelevant anyway. The part that hooked me is "them". I'd read on long enough to find out if "them" is a challenge I want to read about. The part that made me interested in these characters is Mum going after the baby pictures. It makes the whole family real by showing that they have real lives beyond this crisis, and that they each have individual reactions and interactions, which in turn promises depth for the whole story. So these are the two aspects I expect the rest of the story to live up to. >>Rissa turned to her dad and gave him the look. “You’re the one that got us into this in the first place. You and your stupid feud with Richard.”

Colin gritted his teeth. The knuckles of his hands whitened as he tipped his head back

This is the only part I stumbled over. Rissa’s paragraph is clearly referring to story stuff I haven’t seen, which makes the whole snippit feel like it comes from somewhere further along in the story, and not the opening at all.

Then, I’m not sure if Colin’s reaction is to Rissa for accusing him, or to Lauren for delaying. If it’s to Rissa, maybe he should respond to Rissa instead of ignoring her. If this is in Colin’s POV, his response could be internal and hidden from Rissa, but not from the reader. If his reaction is to Lauren, you might just delete Rissa’s paragraph. The feud with Richard seems irrelevant anyway.

The part that hooked me is “them”. I’d read on long enough to find out if “them” is a challenge I want to read about.

The part that made me interested in these characters is Mum going after the baby pictures. It makes the whole family real by showing that they have real lives beyond this crisis, and that they each have individual reactions and interactions, which in turn promises depth for the whole story.

So these are the two aspects I expect the rest of the story to live up to.

]]>