Could a scene end without a disaster, but instead having the POV character getting what they want for once?

I say:
Well after a Scene’s Disaster comes the Sequence’s Reaction. The character reacts to the disaster, faces a Dilemma after which he must make a Decision. Then follows another Scene, etc… All this according to Swain. It’s also in the article Randy mentioned. I recommend you go read it, it’s really good.

Julie Says:
Could a scene end without a disaster, but instead having the POV character getting what they want for once?

I say:
Well, you go from Scene to Sequel to Scene to Sequel, etc… until at some time you end up giving your character what he wants, or deny it completely. And this marks the end of the book basically.

All this is in the article. I’d recommend everyone to go read it, because a lot is explained in there.

I think I will take your word for it, it seems to be sound advice.

I also like Pam’s idea of tracking her scenes - I used Power Structure in my last WIP and it was helpful but complex (although probably because I was on a steep learning curve of the craft at the time).

Randy, I can’t thank you enough for this blog. I’ve been learning so much!

I’m a “scene” kind of gal–the “sequel” parts kill me. In my first book, I thought you had to write every second of every moment–trying to fit in when people ate, took a potty break, etc. and hated every boring second of those ’sequels’. Of course, I had the purpose of a “sequel” all wrong and truly goofed it up. But, that’s just another example of why it’s probably good that many first books don’t ever get published

After a “scene” I generally do one of the two things you mentioned–work in the sequel bits amidst a new scene, or go directly to a sequel. How I decide what I’ll do or won’t do is dictated by what I think the reader wants to see.

For instance, if the previous scene is high-action (that helicopter exploding ) and I’ve worked hard to show personal conflict within the characters throughout the preceding chapters–this is a good place to showcase what impact the danger of the “explosion” has on the character’s internal conflict.

If, however, the preceding action “scene” is more about the internal conflict, then I generally follow with a scene in which the characters are taking action on that internal conflict and simply paraphrase the ‘aftermath’ or “sequel.”

In other words, I try to keep it moving, try to keep the momentum going.

I think I’ve just paraphrased everything you stated to begin with Which is why I enjoyed reading it so much because it said so succinctly what I muddled through here

Thanks again!
Warmly,
Jenny:)

Another question if you have time to consider it:
Alive Communications will not assign you an agent unless you have been published commercially or unless you have a referral by a published author. I haven’t had a novel published yet. This means I need a referral. And how do you do that? Any secrets? I’m writing a novel set in ancient Canaan.
Thanks for your time!
Pam

1. How important is the S&S alternating pattern in the first couple chapters if you’re introducing people and cleverly disguised background info?

I have 2 characters who don’t meet for a while, and the chapters leading up to it ALTERNATE.

Maybe I’ve errantly assumed that a scene or sequel comprise a full chapter, and what I should be asking is: are scenes or sequels bound by chapter, are they combined in a chapter, or are they spread across chapters?

2. Please help me understand goal-conflict-diaster vs. reaction-dilemma-decision. I get them confused.(Well, isn’t a dilemma a conflict…?)

I tried to find the S&S’s in a book I liked well enough to read in nearly one sitting (a good sign, I thought) But for the most part…I COULDN’T FIGURE OUT WHERE S&S’S BEGAN AND ENDED!

Either: a. I’m overanalyzing (highly unlikely), b. The author forgot to use S&S, or c. I really AM a moron.

I usually use the scene-sequel as a chapter, although sometimes I make each a chapter. It all depends on how long it is and if I think the reader needs the chapter break between scene-sequel. If, however, its a very fast moment, I will cram more than one scene-sequel group into a chapter.

As for the parts of scene-sequels, I try to keep very short notes.

GOAL = what the POV char is consumed with at that moment.

CONFLICT = POV char vs problem/other char/self doubts

DISASTER = looks like POV char is going to reach his/her goal but then something goes waaaay wrong

REACTION = the emotional turmoil resulting from the disaster

DILEMMA = POV char vs the resulting situation of the disaster. Possible courses of actions/solutions are presented (although not laid out in an obvious multiple choice fashion)

DECISION = POV char picks one (but make sure this is a hook)

I say:
I would say it’s always important and you want to make absolutely sure you have a rock solid first couple of chapters. Supposing you will some day see that novel on the shelf of a bookstore, ultimately it will be the first couple of paragraphs or the first chapter that will sell your novel to the browsing customer. If you don’t grip him right away, you risk losing a potential buyer for your novel. I think it was in Stein on Writing that I read this: one of the common mistakes a beginner novelist makes is to put too much boring background information in the beginning of a novel, instead of grabbing the reader’s interest through action. (That’s not a quote, just remembering what I read)
So if you’re going to put a lot of character introductions and background info in those first chapters, you better make sure you disguise it very cleverly indeed and keep the reader interested. Using this technique of Scene and Sequel makes that a lot easier. Remember, your main character has to want something from the very first word of the very first paragraph of the very first novel.

Camille Says:
I have 2 characters who don’t meet for a while, and the chapters leading up to it ALTERNATE.
Maybe I’ve errantly assumed that a scene or sequel comprise a full chapter, and what I should be asking is: are scenes or sequels bound by chapter, are they combined in a chapter, or are they spread across chapters?

I say:
From my own personal pre-published experience (:)) I’ve seen both. I’ve seen very short Scenes and Sequels, and I’ve seen Scenes that take up an entire 3000 word chapter. Maybe that’s me, or maybe that’s how it is with everyone.

Camille Says:
2. Please help me understand goal-conflict-diaster vs. reaction-dilemma-decision. I get them confused.(Well, isn’t a dilemma a conflict…?)

I say:
For Scene:
Goal: your Scene must start with your POV character having a goal. This is important because if there’s nothing to do, there’s no interesting story for the reader to care about.
Conflict: a story isn’t interesting if your POV character just gets his way all the time. So some things must happen that hinder him to reach his goal. Think of this as an obstacle course of multiple set-back that your character has to overcome just to have another one hinder him.
Disaster: In the end, don’t give your POV character his way. Something happens that denies him his goal. Make it something which at first seems disastrous. This is usually a great place for a chapter-ending cliff hanger.

For Sequel:
Reaction: The disaster doesn’t leave the POV character unemotional. He will react to this disaster in some way. This can be long and drawn out, or it can be a short reaction. It really depends on what the disaster is, what the character is like and a whole lot of other factors.
Dilemma: The goal could not be reached because of a seemingly unsurpassable obstacle. What to do? This is usually the place where your POV character weighs his options. Which road should he choose. Which option to take. The tougher the choice, the better
Decision: Ultimately, the POV character must break through the dilemma. Whether he choses one of the options, or the choice is made for him or something interrupts his decision making. At some point, you’ll want something to happen that moves the story forward. (and into the next Scene)

I too found it hard to recognize Scenes and Sequels in books I’ve read. I found it infinitely easier to find them in my own novel, for some reason. I’d say, just try and picture one of the key moments in your book where something really bad happens to your main character and try and see if you can see the Scene and Sequel structure surrounding that Disaster. That might be a place to start figuring this out.

Personally, I find this Scene and Sequel concept to be one of the most refreshing things I’ve learned about writing. I’d never thought of a novel having a definite fine-tuned structure like this till I read about it.

Kathryn’s breakout examples helped a lot and made me laugh…as soon as I read it, I could totally see the Scene and Sequel in my first chapter. Wow, I didn’t even know I did it. Of course, with a slower paced, “inner issues” kind of plot, the disasters and conflicts aren’t as obvious to us morons–no blood splattering or helicopter blades whizzing past my head to get my attention.

The only part that I’m not sure about is the hook. The first chapter ends with Protag driving into the cold, dark night, back to his lonely life. (yes, it’s a comedy) Doesn’t seem very hooky.
(Why can’t readers just turn the page? They can SEE that there are more of them.)

I love this blog!

I ask, because in a few instances I have two POVs in one chapter - broken up by asterisks and several hard returns. If I separate them out into chapters, they’ll be extremely short chapters. I also switch POV in the same chapter, because I need the other character’s point of view to add suspense and foreshadowing.

Plus, since it all happens in the same scene (or conflict), I think different chapters would jar the reader more than the asterisk separations to indicate the POV switch.

Or am I way off base, and I should rewrite those chapters with a single POV?

I think what you’re doing is fine. You don’t have to stick to 1 POV in a chapter, but you have to stick to just 1 in a scene. You could have several scenes in a chapter and each scene could have a different POV. I’m guessing that this is what you’re doing.

If I’m reading your comment right, I think you may be confused as to what a scene is and what a chapter is.

This is a rewrite, though. I already have a first completed draft, but a rethink of the timing and starting point has caused me to entirely rewrite the beginning–or at least I’m working on rewriting the beginning. So far I’m stalling more than progressing.

But using Randy’s analogy, I have three separate braids that will then in turn braid together near the end. How do you handle something like that? In my original draft, I had the most distant story interrupting the “main” story as interludes. But in my rewrite the distant story has split into two separate stories, and I don’t think the interlude thing is going to work anymore. Maybe I’m trying to do too much?

One of my favorite books is Eyes of the Dragon by Stephen King. The closer he gets to the finale, the shorter his chapters get as he switches back and forth between viewpoints. I always felt that it cranked up the excitment and tension.

Action scenes? Give it a try and see how you like it. Emotional scenes? Probably not so much. I like it when authors write the same scene twice, but once from each PoV. Especially if the characters have been arguing.

I suppose only biographies and autobiographies wouldn’t be able to use this system.

Thanks Andra, I’m going to read that book by Stephen King though my novel is drama with action interspersed.