Comments on: Those Pesky Literary Novelists http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/ America's Mad Professor of Fiction Writing Sat, 30 Aug 2008 00:46:11 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.3 By: Mark http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-438 Mark Thu, 26 Apr 2007 09:49:04 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-438 Randy, the point you make about knowing the rules before you can break them is underpins the difference between a lucky amatuer and a dedicated professional. One slaps things together and hope's enough sticks to be recognizable, while the other has learnt the needed techniques that will produce a particular result. But we also need to remember that every technique relied on today was once new and untried. Randy, the point you make about knowing the rules before you can break them is underpins the difference between a lucky amatuer and a dedicated professional.

One slaps things together and hope’s enough sticks to be recognizable, while the other has learnt the needed techniques that will produce a particular result.

But we also need to remember that every technique relied on today was once new and untried.

]]> By: Laura Ware http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-439 Laura Ware Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:44:12 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-439 I have to agree that you have to know the rules to know when and how you can break them. And yes, people create groundbreaking techniques every day. But how do you know if yours is groundbreaking or already tried? :-) (Sorry if this post seems weird - haven't had coffee yet) I have to agree that you have to know the rules to know when and how you can break them.

And yes, people create groundbreaking techniques every day. But how do you know if yours is groundbreaking or already tried? :-)

(Sorry if this post seems weird - haven’t had coffee yet)

]]> By: Deb Ratcliffe http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-440 Deb Ratcliffe Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:20:45 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-440 Aren't we just modifying a standard technique when we write something that appears unique? By the way, are there any other Australians on this blog? Regards Deb Ratcliffe Aren’t we just modifying a standard technique when we write something that appears unique?

By the way, are there any other Australians on this blog?

Regards
Deb Ratcliffe

]]> By: Rachel Brown http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-441 Rachel Brown Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:38:58 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-441 That's kinda funny ... if you don't follow the rules you're either a novice or a literary novelist. Never thought of myself as a literary writer before ... (Yeah, right! So I'm just a novice trying to learn the rules ... ) Rachel (G'day from another Aussie) That’s kinda funny … if you don’t follow the rules you’re either a novice or a literary novelist. Never thought of myself as a literary writer before …

(Yeah, right! So I’m just a novice trying to learn the rules … )

Rachel
(G’day from another Aussie)

]]> By: Andra M. http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-442 Andra M. Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:50:35 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-442 I like the analogy of the painter, and heartily agree we need to know the "rules" before we attempt to break them. The only downside to that is there are so many, and depending upon who we talk to or read from, they often contradict each other. It's frustrating, but at the same time much can be learned from studying all points of view. It's easier (though not necessarily quicker) to discover our own voice that way. We then have much more of those rules to pick and choose from, and in turn apply to our writing. Better to have too many tools at our disposal than not enough. I like the analogy of the painter, and heartily agree we need to know the “rules” before we attempt to break them. The only downside to that is there are so many, and depending upon who we talk to or read from, they often contradict each other.

It’s frustrating, but at the same time much can be learned from studying all points of view. It’s easier (though not necessarily quicker) to discover our own voice that way. We then have much more of those rules to pick and choose from, and in turn apply to our writing.

Better to have too many tools at our disposal than not enough.

]]> By: Josh http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-444 Josh Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:27:58 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-444 What if Dali attempted to paint a flat clock and the droopy ones were just his failed attempts? Can inspiration sometimes be misunderstood or salvaged failures? What if Dali attempted to paint a flat clock and the droopy ones were just his failed attempts? Can inspiration sometimes be misunderstood or salvaged failures?

]]> By: Story Hack http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-445 Story Hack Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:17:21 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-445 <strong>Literary vs Commercial Fiction</strong> When discussing literary fiction and “commercial” fiction, I’ve often read that they are two different schools of thought. Maybe that’s because in today’s world, we are trained to divide any concept into two and then pick ... Literary vs Commercial Fiction

When discussing literary fiction and “commercial” fiction, I’ve often read that they are two different schools of thought. Maybe that’s because in today’s world, we are trained to divide any concept into two and then pick …

]]> By: Marian Clough http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-446 Marian Clough Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:24:31 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-446 I have to agree with you about learning the basics and then going from there with whatever creativity is in you. I do that with all of the art forms that I'm involved in even though my REAL inclination is to 'wing it'. It must be the rebel in me. I have to agree with you about learning the basics and then going from there with whatever creativity is in you. I do that with all of the art forms that I’m involved in even though my REAL inclination is to ‘wing it’. It must be the rebel in me.

]]> By: Holly H. http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-447 Holly H. Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:43:17 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-447 I'm not sure I agree with what you said about "the basics"--in the analogy, the painter had to learn the traditions of art first. Well, our traditions in books are for the most part literary--I see the new forms as more akin to the rule-breaking abstracts than the literary traditions that came first! (Many of which broke every conceivable modern rule but still worked!) I view studying at the feet of the masters (reading great art) as my apprenticeship - and learning from them is where I can make some sense about not rules per se, but acceptable and workable forms. ...the ramblings of a literary science-fiction novice... I’m not sure I agree with what you said about “the basics”–in the analogy, the painter had to learn the traditions of art first. Well, our traditions in books are for the most part literary–I see the new forms as more akin to the rule-breaking abstracts than the literary traditions that came first! (Many of which broke every conceivable modern rule but still worked!)

I view studying at the feet of the masters (reading great art) as my apprenticeship - and learning from them is where I can make some sense about not rules per se, but acceptable and workable forms.

…the ramblings of a literary science-fiction novice…

]]> By: Davalynn http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-448 Davalynn Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:40:03 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-448 Hello Randy, I know the time limit is up but I still wanted to comment on your show-don't-tell. I believe the theory behind learning to show first rather than tell is based in learning to paint word pictures. When you learn how to use words to paint a picture then you have more skill in using the words. The theory is also seen among many popular muscians who have studied classical music but play contemporary music - they learned the basics, the why's and how's, and then they took those rules and twisted them, shaped them and even broke them in creative ways. I write a weekly educational column for the newspaper and often the sixth-grade students I teach everyday come to me with a column and ask something like, "Why can you begin a sentence with 'And' but we can't?" That's when I get to teach them about the how's and why's and style and voice. And believe it or not, they get it! Hello Randy,

I know the time limit is up but I still wanted to comment on your show-don’t-tell. I believe the theory behind learning to show first rather than tell is based in learning to paint word pictures. When you learn how to use words to paint a picture then you have more skill in using the words. The theory is also seen among many popular muscians who have studied classical music but play contemporary music - they learned the basics, the why’s and how’s, and then they took those rules and twisted them, shaped them and even broke them in creative ways. I write a weekly educational column for the newspaper and often the sixth-grade students I teach everyday come to me with a column and ask something like, “Why can you begin a sentence with ‘And’ but we can’t?” That’s when I get to teach them about the how’s and why’s and style and voice. And believe it or not, they get it!

]]> By: Karla Akins http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-449 Karla Akins Thu, 26 Apr 2007 20:32:28 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-449 "The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us...I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit." --Ecclesiastes 1:9-14 “The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us…I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.” –Ecclesiastes 1:9-14

]]> By: yeggy http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-450 yeggy Thu, 26 Apr 2007 21:16:23 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-450 The thing about any sort of fiction writing is that is should be accessible. Not so obscure that a reasonable reader has to wade through a paragraph three times and still not be sure what the writer is trying to say. So if you show or tell, if you write lit fic or pop fic a reader needs to be able to read and make sense of it. (Hiya Rachel and Deb, from Darwin, NT) The thing about any sort of fiction writing is that is should be accessible. Not so obscure that a reasonable reader has to wade through a paragraph three times and still not be sure what the writer is trying to say. So if you show or tell, if you write lit fic or pop fic a reader needs to be able to read and make sense of it.
(Hiya Rachel and Deb, from Darwin, NT)

]]> By: christa http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-451 christa Fri, 27 Apr 2007 01:58:47 +0000 http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2007/04/25/those-pesky-literary-novelists/#comment-451 I think that,after I have done both, then I will decide which was the rule and which was the one broken. I think that,after I have done both, then I will decide which was the rule and which was the one broken.

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